...RANDOM THOUGHTS FROM THE MAN ON THE STREET

Chris Wynne: "Victim In Pain"

When I got the idea to have classic albums face off against each other on this site and have people actually vote on their favorites the hardest matchup that I could come up with was this one. The mother fucking Cro-Mags from their heyday up against the mighty Agnostic Front. NYHC at its best! This feature has nuttin’ to do with any drama, past band members, who has the coolest tats or any non-sense that isn’t musical related. We asked people straight up… which is better? The music on “Victim In Pain” or “The Age Of Quarrel”? Like I said already this one is a hard one but I gotta go with “Victim In Pain” with that raw street punk meets hardcore sound. The title track to VIP starts off and in less than a minute runs you over like a runaway tractor trailer. Tracks like “Blind Justice”, “United And Strong”, and “Your Mistake” are still as powerful today as they were when this record came out 30 years ago and everyone and their mom knows when to yell out STIGMA! right before that guitar lead on “Power”. VIP delivered the sound, the look and a message that still resonates throughout the worldwide hardcore music scene.

With that said “The Age Of Quarrel” comes in right behind VIP by a hair in my book. “We Gotta Know” probably represents NYHC better than any other track EVER with its classic intro and choppy drum beat leading into that “struggling on the streets just trying to survive…” lyric which still makes the hair on my neck stand up from time to time. “Hard Times”, “By Myself”, “Show You No Mercy”, and “Signs Of The Times” are just a couple of the standouts on an album with nothing BUT standouts. Much like VIP this album brought a swagger, an attitude a toughness and a sound that was undoubtedly NYHC in the 1980’s. BOTH of these albums have touched so many people in so many ways, influenced bands and genres of punk rock and hardcore and continue to be building blocks for those just discovering this fucked up music we all know and love.

Ken "KWE" Wagner "The Age Of Quarrel"

Wow right out the box a tough call in my eyes. The quintessential boots and braces NYHC skinhead band Agnostic Front. The Hare Krishna loving contradicting crushing Cro-Mags.....Thanks to Chris this got me (in true Ken Wagner fashion), to climb in the attic and dust these gems off and give ‘em a listen. First off when the “Victim In Pain” album came out I was such an impressionable 14 year old kid and the album cover and inside gatefold was mind numbing. The music was true to AF's style at the time. But the lyrics were deep in social content. A lot to take in at such a young age. Can’t say enough about all the tracks, favorite of mine "With Time" definite NYC creepy crawl styleeee...Cro-Mags’ “Age Of Quarrel” a beast front to back!! Mackie's drumming rivaling Earl from the Bad Brains. With Doug Hollands" crunch" the sound was undeniable! Of course bridging the gap between hardcore and metal, this album just crushed it!! My pick would weigh more towards “The Age Of Quarrel” but not by much.....

Freddy Alva: "The Age Of Quarrel"

Hands down it's "Age Of Quarrel" for me. I can't compare it to "Victim In Pain" because the first Agnostic Front album I ever heard and got into, is the "Cause For Alarm" LP. I actually prefer CFA over VIP, heresy I know, but that's just me. "Age of Quarrel" is on a whole other level sonically and aesthetically speaking. I think the twin-guitar assault and slower metal grooves in some of the songs give it a more powerful, fuller sound that stands the test of time. It is the golden standard of NYHC LP's for me, perfectly capturing a certain apocalyptic vibe that is as real as the bleak and oddly inspiring concrete jungle that produced it. 

Howie Abrams "Victim In Pain" 

The NYHC community has been spoiled for a long time. So many great bands and such an exciting and vibrant scene. When I was asked to discuss these two albums – at first – I considered it to be a win-win situation. How could you go wrong? I'll tell you how... I know so many folks intimately involved with both of these, that speaking about them makes me a little uneasy, but whatever… I'll go there...

When I first began coming around the scene in New York, Agnostic Front was THE Hardcore nucleus in the greater NY area. AF began to define the sound that we most associate with NYHC when the “United Blood” 7” dropped, and they completed the mission with the 15 minutes of unbridled, raw brutality and truth that is “Victim in Pain”. Both releases are as punk as they are hardcore, however, to this moment, when I think of “New York Hardcore” I think of “Victim In Pain”.

I can see the original Rat Cage Records gatefold album cover as if it were right in front of me. I recall marveling at the intensity of the crowd shot inside the gatefold. I remember reading the lyrics, and identifying with them in a way I hadn’t with any other band’s lyrics prior. I remember screaming my fucking head off at countless shows: “why am I going insane? – why am I the one to blame?” VIP’s sheer power, as well as its (dare I say) catchiness is undeniable. It is 4 guys playing as hard and as fast as they can. Coupled with the lyrical content, and Roger Miret’s rough and cutting delivery; it remains unmistakably New York throughout.

Then there’s NYHC’s most important musical signature. Call them “mosh parts”, or “dance parts’ or the section of the song you go off to; NYC loves slow to mid-tempo breakdowns like no other, and these are represented on VIP with an unfiltered, caveman-like strength yet to be matched. “Victim In Pain” is, and will forever be, the sound of New York Hardcore. Don’t get me wrong… I love me some Cro-Mags, but I don’t truly dig the Profile Records release nearly as much as the earlier demo cassette containing some of the same songs. With all due praises and respect to “We Gotta Know,” imagine if it had been recorded during those demo sessions as well. DAMN!!!

Lewis Dimmick: "Victim In Pain"

The three stick clicks that begin “The Age Of Quarrel” must be the most effective stick clicks in the history of recorded music. It only gets better from there.

            “We Gotta Know” introduces one of the few virtuosos to ever play on a hardcore record: Mackie Jayson. His drum fills throughout the intro are the stuff of legend – melodic, rhythmic, perfect. He is like a master poet who chooses every word with the greatest of care. The end result is not showy; it’s just … perfect.

            I wasn’t able to appreciate all this when I first heard “The Age Of Quarrel” in 1986. My first impression was that it wasn’t heavy enough, or hard enough. The previous year I had discovered records like “Dealing With It” by D.R.I. and “Animosity” by C.O.C. These records struck me as more intense; the music was faster and the production more raw. The guitars seemed too low on the Cro-Mags record. It gave the record the feeling of being subdued.

            All these years later, I don’t hear it that way at all. It makes sense that Mackie, the best musician on the record, is showcased. I wasn’t used to hearing hardcore records where the drums were so prominent; it was usually the guitar on top of everything else; often the drums, especially on poor recordings, were barely audible.

            This record is so confident in its swagger. It is, in fact, subdued. The fastest record isn’t necessarily the hardest, and the rawest record isn’t the hardest. This record is so tough that it doesn’t have to get right up in your face; it holds back a little; the effect is more subtle, keeps working on you, and contains so much depth that the intensity, for me, has increased through the years.

            However, when it comes to picking the best hardcore record of all time, I’ll never pick another record over “Victim In Pain”. I’m ok with knowing I’ll never hear anything this inspirational again. This record was the greatest thing I had ever heard from the first time I ever heard it, and every time I put it on it’s still, without question, without any competition (nothing comes close), the greatest thing I’ve ever heard. I hope that states it strongly enough.

            This record should be taught in schools. “The way I act or way I dress / Doesn’t make me strong or make me best.” What kid couldn’t benefit from hearing that, hardcore or not?

            What kid couldn’t benefit from learning to look at the world with a critical eye? “There’s no justice, there’s just us / Blind justice screwed all of us / There’s no justice, there’s just us / We need justice for all of us.”

            The whole tone of hardcore in the ‘80s is born from this record. “Our friends are more important / We gotta stick together / Supporting one another / United and strong.” Every band said it after them, but no one said it, brought it across with real passion through their music, better.

            And in a hardcore scene that has, to my eyes, become overly obsessed with image, every kid’s introduction to hardcore should be these lines: “Can't you act and be yourself / Not another character in a hardcore handbook / Well, we don't need anymore great American heroes / But real people being themselves, not weirdos.”

            I have to scratch my head at how a band could create a record, musically and lyrically, so inspiring and perfect, then never create another record that comes anywhere close to it. They were there, they lived it, embodied it, the spirit of greatness visited them briefly and they did what all great artists do: they exceeded their own capabilities.

            So I choose “Victim in Pain” as not only the greatest NYHC record of all time, but the greatest hardcore record of all time. The perfect hardcore record. Period.