Scoot: When and how did you get into punk?

Robbie: The only appropriate answer to that is fuck off…next question…just kidding. I don’t know when and how did I get into punk? I listened to the Sex Pistols. My friend Glenn Friedman (Glen E Friedman documented with his pictures, the early US punk/hardcore scene as well as skate boarders) and I went to high school together for I think a year. He got moved from CA back to live with his dad in NJ. Anyway he turned me on to the Sex Pistols and I went and sold all my boring Rock ‘N Roll records and got the Sex Pistols, the Germs, and the Tooth and Nail Comp. with a bunch of people on it. After that I was just hooked. Devo was in there. Just being pissed off at everything anyway it just made sense. This was in the late 70’s, ‘79-‘80. I graduated from high school in 1981 and moved to NYC like 2 weeks after I graduated. So that was in ‘81 but I’d been hanging out for probably 2 years before I graduated. That’s how I got into punk. I started listening to the music, went to NYC a couple of times, hung out, went to Max’s Kansas City. Just started bumping into the same people over and over again and made friends. Pretty soon I had a place to live. When I graduated high school I was like I’m out, I’m going to NYC. I got a job and did the punk rock thing. I guess getting a job isn’t really a punk rock thing but, whatever… it was on and off the whole time. Shit working, all of us. One of us got a job at a massage parlor, ha ha, happy ending.  Everybody was working there so whoever showed up first would punch everybody in on their time cards. So if you were 5 minutes late you still had 5 minutes. We handed out porno flyers on 46TH and 5TH Avenue for 6-7 months until the place got shot up while one of us was sitting out there.

Scoot: Really, someone shot up the place?

Robbie: Oh yeah, the mob. The mob drove by one of the guys…I think it was Bobby Brats. He’d been out partying all night long, sitting with a Ballantine and this black limo pulled up and the window went down and got shot up. I went to work that morning and was like well there is no work today, or any other day for that matter. I forget the guy’s name, Elio?  Anyway that was the type of work we had.

Scoot: What bands were you initially into?

Robbie: All of them…anything,  as soon as I moved to NYC there were so many different bands and so much different music to go see. Just went and saw something different every night. Go to work, come home, take a little nap, get up, go out and see a band and hangout all night long. My first band was the CryptCrashers. That was when I met Danny and Nancy. They were living together in an apartment and those were the friends that I moved in with and lived there most of the time I was in NY. I had my own apartment a couple of times, other places, whatever. We all lived together and we were like let’s make a band. Nancy played guitar, Danny played bass, and I played drums so it just made sense. That was the 3 of us and James Kontra (early Agnostic Front singer/singer for Virus) was in it for a little while. This was 1981-82. We just rehearsed and lived together and wrote songs and made music and worked and did whatever we had to. Then Danny and Nancy had a little baby and that was kind of the end of the CryptCrashers.

Scoot: Did Danny have a nickname?

Robbie: Danny Rampant and Nancy Nausea. We never recorded anything. We only played one show and it was at CBGB’s and the only person to show up was Nick Marden (Stimulators).

Scoot: And that’s how you got your name?

Robbie: Yes and the name stuck. Then I was in a bunch of bands, just people getting together. “Hey let’s play”…”Alright”.  Alex (Kinon), who was in Cause For Alarm, and I met in Tompkins Square Park. He and I hit it off real well and that kind of started that end of the music but I was playing with other bands at the same time. Rehearsing with other bands and there was a question in there about Agnostic Front, and yeah I was the original drummer for AF. I played 3-5 shows with them and at that point I don’t remember what it was, it may have been CFA, or something else but Raybeez (Warzone vocalist) took over the drums for AF. Memories are foggy so I don’t remember the reason I left but the next thing for me was Cause for Alarm.

Scoot: When you were in AF was John Watson singing?

Robbie: Yes, John Watson, was singing. There’s a great flyer that John Watson made for the first show we ever played and it was right when A7 had closed and they started to have another club. It was at 2ND Street and 2ND Avenue and it was called the 2+2. John made the flyer for the show and on the flyer it didn’t say what day or what time. The original name was Zoo Crew. That was the original name and nobody really liked it. We all sat around one night and thought up a new name, “Agnostic Front” and someone was like “What does that mean?” and someone says “Well that means you’re agnostic because” and we were like hey that’s it, Agnostic Front, and it was AF after that.

Scoot: Was Cause For Alarm already together and you replaced a drummer or do you know if you were there from the beginning?

Robbie: You had some questions in there about Hinckley Fan Club. It was originally Hinckley Fan Club and Alex and I met in Tompkins Square Park and he had a guitar and a little pig nose amp that was battery powered. We sat around and either I had drum sticks or I played with my hands, I don’t remember. Anyway we had a great time that night sitting on the bench. We just kind of got together and got phone numbers. He was living in NJ and so we got together and there was something happening with Hinckley Fan Club. There was one original member and they were doing a gig out in NJ and they really needed some people and would we help. I know it was me and Alex and maybe Kabula (Bass in CFA/Agnostic Front). There was one person from Hinckley Fan Club and we played all of Hinckley Fan Club’s songs. Then the guy quit for whatever reason and then it was just me, Alex, and Kabula. We were like alright we need to keep doing this and we’ll play their songs. Which we didn’t play many of their songs…I think only 2 or 3. We were like we’re in a band now so let’s just kind of keep doing this and instead of Hinckley Fan Club we changed the name to Cause for Alarm.  I forget the girl who came up with the name but she had a list of names from your wrist to your elbow and we picked CFA. That’s how we started and then Keith (Burkdardt) came in. I don’t remember where we met Keith. I think he was around for a while, then he was the singer and off we went. We were all from NJ originally but all of us except Alex lived in NYC at least for a short time. Alex might as well have lived in NYC because he was there all the time. We never lived together though.

Scoot: So there was no like band apartment where everyone lived together?

Robbie: No, not with the band but there definitely were apartments like Apartment X where 6 or 7 people lived.

Scoot: Was that on Norfolk Street where Tony T-shirt lived? (Tony got his name because he printed T-shirts. He was also the singer for Ultra-Violence).

Robbie: Yeah, Tony lived there. There were so many people that lived there and crashed there ‘cause they knew it was a house. Everybody lived there at one time I think. I lived there for 3-4 weeks, Kabula lived there and Alex lived there. We all lived there for at least a week or two. That was a crazy apartment. Cause for Alarm actually got our records delivered to Apartment X. It was just before we were leaving to go on tour and we couldn’t leave until we got the records. We were living in a van outside Apartment X because there were already so many people living in the apartment that we just decided to live in our van outside the apartment. We slept in the van and went inside to make coffee and use the bathroom. So we lived in the van for two or three days until the records came.

Scoot: Did you guys release the record yourself?

Robbie: No we found a guy who would do the record. I think they did 2500 and we got 500 copies. They were only pressed once. I still have the master tapes.

Scoot: How long was Keith in the band before he got into Krishna?

Robbie: I’m not sure, maybe less than a year.

Scoot: Anyone else in the band get into Krishna?

Robbie: No, just him. They started coming around on Sundays and giving out free food to everybody at this big long lunch line. You’d go get the food and I guess some people started talking to them and it made sense to them. I don’t care what you believe in, that’s not my business. Believe in what you want but you can’t make a platform where you’re preaching your beliefs and only your beliefs. I think that was what the issue was in the band because we weren’t ok with Keith saying it on stage. Keith was like “Well I want to say it.” And we were like ok but not in this band and that’s kind of how it went.

Scoot: So was Keith up on stage when you guys were playing and talking about Krishna between songs?

Robbie: I think the problem arose once or twice or something and no one was happy about it. We didn’t want him to do it because we weren’t Krishna. Keith was convicted enough in his beliefs that he felt he had to say something. To me I got into punk because I just never believed in any of the lies and the bullshit and the crap and the garbage that I was being fed on TV or the radio. That was one of the initial reasons that I got into it. And one of them was definitely not preaching about Krishna. That’s not political to me and that’s your own personal deal so you deal with that on your own. If all of us are Krishna than that’s great, let’s make a Krishna band but we’re all not that way. That’s where the strife came in. Keith was a great singer. Then came Charuki. He was great on stage. He had great stage presence. I never understood why we kicked Charuki out. Tell him to get singing lessons, tell him not to scream so loud on this last note. Who cares it’s a fucking punk band. Let’s not get too serious dudes. 

Scoot: Charuki was asked to leave?

Robbie: Yes we made a decision, I didn’t agree with it but it was two to one at that point. He was out of the band because he wasn’t good enough or he was yelling out of key. We were what we were and somehow that changed the dynamic of the band as soon as Charuki was out. I don’t know whatever happened to Joe. I don’t know where he went.

Scoot: Who was Joe?

Robbie: Joe was the bass player after Kabula. Joe went on tour with us.

Scoot: What happened to Kabula?

Robbie: I don’t remember.

Scoot: Was he in Agnostic Front by that point?

Robbie: I think so but I’m not sure.

Scoot: Back to Krishna, when they handed out food where did they set up?

Robbie: By Tompkins Square Park along Avenue A and 8TH Street.

Scoot: Now when you guys went on tour was Joe in the band when you were waiting for the records outside Apartment X?

Robbie: Yes

Scoot: Was it was full U.S. tour?

Robbie: Yes, all the way to San Francisco and we stayed there for a couple of weeks and then drove back toward the South. We played Rock Against Reagan in Dallas that year. We went all the way across the South. Came back and went out to Kent, OH. Played Kent again, played Pittsburgh and back to Manhattan. 

Scoot: In the old Maximum Rock n Roll it said he was a roadie for MDC.

Robbie: That’s right he was a roadie for MDC and he somehow ended up in NY. So anyway he was in the band and it turns out that he’s friends with MDC and on and on.  Well MDC is supposed to be doing a tour with BGK from Holland. I don’t know how the tour got booked or who booked it. There was an entire tour booked for MDC and BGK to tour the U.S. together and MDC forgot about it or something, I’m not sure. So BGK shows up and they’re staying at my house. I had a big apartment over on 2ND Street and so here’s seven people that showed up to go on tour and they’re staying at my house. We’re all just kind of hanging out and all of a sudden its like “Hey Alex can you pull it together? We have two weeks before these guys leave to go on tour. Let’s go on tour with them. MDC didn’t show up, they need two bands. Let’s go on tour, can we do this?” We all put it together and it was through Charuki and we were like Charuki are you ready? We’re going on tour. He was like alright let’s do it and off we went. BGK were a fast punk band, I guess hardcore at that point. I never heard from them again. The tour just fell into our laps. We pulled it together and within three weeks we were on the road.

Scoot: Did you ever record with Charuki?

Robbie: No, not that I can remember. We got back from tour and we were writing new songs but we never recorded that I can remember. Keith was in the band for maybe a year and we recorded with Keith and a little after the recording is when we ran into problems with Keith and that’s why we went to San Francisco and then we found Charuki and went on tour.

Scoot: Was anyone in the band straight edge?

Robbie: No, we used to laugh about the straight edge dudes who didn’t do drugs and were up till 4am slamming Pepsi’s. It’s like, ok caffeine isn’t a drug? That was one of our observations. There weren’t many straight edge kids in NY, it was mostly in D.C. and Boston and we ran into a bunch of straight edge kids when we were on tour. Its cool… do what you want.

Scoot: How did Zowie get into the band and what about Charuki?

Robbie: I don’t remember if we talked to Charuki like “Hey you need to get better singing” but he was the first to go because he could be a little out of time but you know what? His stage presence was so much better than Zowie’s and I think Zowie was nervous because he wasn’t a singer but a bassist when we got him. He was a metal bassist, he was a friend of Joe’s and lived out in Queens. Joe said he was an awesome bassist and he’s not in a band and wants to be in a band so maybe he could sing with us and that’s how Zowie got in. The dynamics of the band changed as soon as Charuki was out.

Scoot: I’ve seen pictures of him and he had long hair. Was he the only guy in the band with long hair?

Robbie: He was the only guy in the band with long hair and that was about the end of it for me when Zowie joined. Whatever, it’s all water under the bridge now.

Scoot: You don’t know how long they lasted after you left?

Robbie: I have no idea. Once I left there wasn’t a whole bunch of contact between us. It wasn’t anyone’s fault. Maybe I just wasn’t good enough or evolution or something. I have no hard feelings and I don’t think I ever did. It’s like alright, I’m not good enough or I can’t keep up with you guys and they would tell me to practice more. I live in an apartment in NYC… I can’t practice my drums there. So for me it wasn’t what the spirit was about and they were trying a more metal direction. It wasn’t about sounding good but of course you want to sound good but it was about stating what you needed to state, and doing it in the best way you could. They were like you can’t keep playing punk rock music forever, you have to evolve. Well guess what? Agnostic Front is still playing punk rock music and so is Vinnie and it’s fantastic. You know what I mean? Like I said… No hard feelings, it is what it is. I miss them and all the folks. I miss those days. That was a good time and a good group of friends.

Scoot: When CFA would play NY would there be a lot of people coming to your shows?

Robbie: Oh yeah definitely.

Scoot: In your opinion was CFA one of the better NYHC bands?

Robbie: Better is hard to say because everybody was awesome in their own way. Every band was great. It was just NY…It was all your friends. It was everybody going to see these friends play tonight. Alright well then let’s go see these friends play. So it’s not like CFA was one of the best. We made it out on tour where a lot of the smaller NYC bands didn’t make it out on tour. Therefore nobody really knows about them except unless you lived in NY. But I mean you could say that about Boston, LA, and San Francisco. If you got out on tour than people knew you and if you didn’t get out on tour then nobody knew you. You weren’t any better or any worse. The Virus were just as good as CFA were and they just didn’t get out on tour.

Scoot: I ask because in the old Maximum Rock n Roll you’re described as one of the leading NYHC bands.

Robbie: There again, same thing, we’re a leading hardcore band because we got out of NY. I remember when it was punk rock as well as hardcore and there were a lot of hardcore bands that definitely deserved to get out of NY but they didn’t care. They were just playing NY and they were getting paid to do it and living the lifestyle and that was good enough for them. Yeah I guess we got out of NY so people knew us. Leading? I don’t know about that. Not to say we weren’t good.

Scoot: Did you play with anyone after CFA?

Robbie: I played with the Black Snakes and James Kontra for a little bit when they were trying two drummers. I played a couple of shows with Murphy’s Law also when they needed a drummer. I also played with the Cavity Creeps. That was the out of town band.

Scoot: What do you mean, out of town band?

Robbie: Well say if Agnostic Front is going to play in NJ or some band is going to play in NJ they’re like hey come on check it out, it’s like ok can you get the Cavity Creeps on the bill. Yeah sure we can get the Cavity Creeps on the bill. So all of a sudden the Cavity Creeps are on the bill. Well I’d play guitar and Jimmy (Gestapo/Murphys Law) would play drums or whatever the combination would be for the Cavity Creeps and you’d just make just the most horrendous horrible noise because I don’t know how to play guitar and Jimmy can’t play drums. He doesn’t know how to play bass and the other guy can’t sing but you got in for free and you got a guest list. So that means about 12 of you got in for free and got free drinks for the night. So that was the Cavity Creeps. So every time you played out of town you’d try and get the Cavity Creeps on the bill and that was the whole point of the Cavity Creeps. They would get on stage and everybody would leave the club, everybody. Eventually they started to figure it out about the Cavity Creeps. I actually have a Cavity Creeps T-shirt. That was one of the best ideas and I don’t remember who came up with it.

Scoot: How was it touring back then? I mean would you go to cities and people would know who you were?

Robbie: Kind of but not really until we got there, they just knew that there was a band coming. It was all booked by somebody else, I don’t know by who. BGK had the whole tour booked already with MDC but they didn’t show up so we went. We’d show up in whatever town and there’d be directions to someone’s house and we’d go to their house and stay there and we’d always get spaghetti dinners, there was always a big meal. In the Midwest everyone was psyched that there was a band coming. So we’d stay at somebody’s house or meet someone at a show and stay at their house. Some shows you’d drive all night and day and get there, set up and play, and get back in the van and drive again. Sometimes there were three days between shows. That’s when we’d print new T-shirts. We had our own silk screen so every place that we went when we got low on T-shirts we’d go to some mall somewhere and buy 100 white T-shirts and spend the day silk screening and spend the night hanging out with all the punkers in town. 

Scoot: Would you make enough at shows to pay for gas?

Robbie: The shows didn’t cover the gas because you’re splitting the entire evening amongst 8 to 10 people but what did make money was the fact that we’d sell 20 to 30 records a night for $3. We also sold T-shirts for $5 that didn’t cost us very much to make. That’s pretty much what got us through the tour. I was the one doing the books and we started the tour with everyone getting $5 a day from the band and that’s what you got to live on. It didn’t matter what you bought with the money but all you got was $5. When we got to San Francisco we were like well everything is going well, we’re kind of doing good so let’s up this to $10 a day. The band bought beer everyday so that was one of the expenses that came out so yeah it basically paid for itself. We had a bright yellow Dodge Maxi van with all of our luggage, equipment, and 6 guys in it. We built a loft so 4 people could be sleeping with one person driving and a co-pilot. Our biggest expense was gas so you know you made a little bit every night to cover that. The BGK tour lasted two months, one month to get a across the country. We stayed in San Francisco a week and three weeks to get back.

Scoot: Did you see violence come into the scene around 1983/84? I’ve had some people tell me that the scene got more violent with the newer bands coming in and going in one direction and the older bands not liking the violence and going in another direction.

Robbie: I don’t know if it got more violent or the dancing just changed. Girls used to pogo but when thrash dancing came along the girls really didn’t want to dance anymore. Only the biggest people wanted to go out and beat the thrash dance out of everybody. They’re the only people that can enjoy this now. So there may have been something with the older bands not liking it. I remember everyone pogoing and Black Flag coming to town and Glenn Friedman came with them and I don’t want to boast on myself or anything but Glenn Friedman and the Black Flag roadie, Mugger. It was at Traxx somewhere uptown and Black Flag played there with the Bad Brains. No the Bad Brains played and Mugger was there with Black Flag and that was the first time that anybody slam danced in NYC. I learned it from Glen (Friedman) because he was out on the West Coast and everybody was slam dancing on the West Coast. So there’s Glen and Mugger and I’m like show me how to do this and off they went. So that was the first night that anybody slam danced in NYC. After a while everybody hated it because if you were a girl you stood on the side. If you were a dude and didn’t feel like getting bashed around for the next two songs you stood on the side. When you wanted to go get bashed around you jumped in and it was your favorite song and off you went. Have you ever seen the early NYC hardcore documentary on YouTube?  Just go to YouTube and type in early NYHC.

Scoot: Do you know who made it?

Robbie: Yes I know who filmed it and I know what the show was about. In the first 30 seconds you can see me lean up against a car. I have a mohawk and then the picture changes. This is the best footage of that time. That’s me in the middle of the two girls talking. Michelle is on my right. She’s the bald chick and Lisa Bat is on my left. Michelle is my ex-wife and I think Lisa is dead. My other band that I played drums in, Counterforce, plays in the film. Frank is playing guitar, Gina is singing and I can’t remember the bassist.

Scoot: Was Counterforce playing the same time you were in CFA?

Robbie: Yes, I played in a bunch of bands. I played anywhere I could, anytime I could. I played with Counterforce for a little while. As long as I was there Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday to practice with CFA no one cared what the hell I did. So that’s both CFA and Counterforce, we did a benefit.  Michelle the bald chick baby sat for these people on 2ND Street between 1ST Avenue and 2ND Avenue. The block association was doing a benefit to try and raise money for their playground. So we put 8 or 10 bands together and we did a benefit show. Mickey’s parents interviewed me, Michelle, and Lisa in their hallway which was against that white wall. Then they came and video taped pretty much the whole show.  We raised $2500 and they fixed up the playground and that was cool. I’m playing in both those bands in the video.

Scoot: Did you ever see racism in the scene?

Robbie: No, definitely not. You can’t be racist when everybody hates you. Puerto Ricans hate you, the blacks hate you, and white people hate you. When everybody is suspect about you, you can’t be racist. You’re the minority of the minorities of the minority.

Scoot: Did you ever go to 171A? (For those that don’t know 171A was a store front studio run by Jerry Williams who recorded the Bad Brains and Beastie Boys among others).

Robbie: Tons of times. It was a store front they rented out and they set it up as a rehearsal studio and recording place and I think they had a few shows there. There were couches everywhere and we’d sit there and watch the Bad Brains play.

Scoot: Then you knew Jerry Williams (RIP)?

Robbie: He produced the CFA record.

Scoot: Did you guys record it at 171A?

Robbie: No we didn’t do that. We went uptown to a recording studio up there and he came up and did the sound that day and did the final mix that day. We did everything in one day, in like 8 hours. The music was recorded live and Keith did his vocals separate and through the magic of Jerry Williams it came out sounding really good.

(Note from Scoot) Jerry Williams is someone I would love to have had the chance to interview but he unfortunately passed away a few years ago. He was an important part of the early scene.)

Scoot: You did mention that when hardcore started coming into vogue the scene started to change and some of the punk bands started to disappear.

Robbie: It was just a new influx of people. The punk scene like the Stimulators days when I was involved, 1981, and hardcore started happening a lot of those bands disappeared. The NY Rippers, the Violators, and the Mad all disappeared. There were a lot of old punk bands that just were gone. I don’t know, it’s either keep up with the times or they just weren’t into it. It’s a hard question to answer, but there were tons of really good punk bands that sort of disappeared when hardcore started coming in. I remember this dude Tommy Gun with an 8 foot long telephone cord and telephone receiver, and he used to just drag it behind him wherever he went. It was such a nuisance in a crowded place to have this guy dragging a telephone around but it was wrapped around his waist, it was his belt. He disappeared when hardcore came along. I know Danny and Nancy (from Cryptcrashers) got fed up when hardcore started to happen and I’m not sure why. You had this influx of folks that are more hardcore and sure they wear their leather jackets and they have spiked mohawks but they might have looked the same but they weren’t the same. Things slowly progressed and then the skinhead thing came in and they were actually clean cut looking.  So I started hanging out since mid-1979 and things definitely changed. With hardcore people actually started to look a little cleaner. They were still shocking because there’s a bunch of you hanging out, but yeah there were some people that I really admired for ideas that just left when hardcore came in. Do you know about the Mad, Screaming Mad George?

(Screaming Mad George aka Joji Tani was born in Osaka, Japan and was the singer for the NYC punk band The Mad. He went on to work in special effects for movies including Bride of Re-Animator, Nightmare on Elm St 4, and Predator. The Mad released 2 singles in their time that are highly collectable now.)

Scoot: Yes, you’ve seen them? Were they theatrical?

Robbie: Oh totally, he’d cut his head open, he’d pull stuff out of his pants and eat it. He went on to do special effects in movies. That was some of the craziest shit. He’d cut his stomach and his intestines would fall out. He’d reach in the back of his pants, he’d have a plastic bag hidden in there with peanut butter and chocolate mixed together, and pull this shit looking stuff out. 

Scoot: Rob and I started talking about the differences between punk from then and today.

Robbie: Nowadays if you say you’re a punk it’s not like it was in ’83 because now you’ll say punk and they will say “Oh like Green Day”. Right there that’s the end of the conversation as far as I’m concerned, because if your idea of punk is Green Day then I have nothing I can even begin to relate to you about with what it is that I’ve experienced. I think I’ve said this before but I’m pissed at the youth. If you’re playing punk rock music don’t sing about your fucking girlfriend. Sing about something that’s important because that’s what it was about. That’s where it started, for me anyway. It was a political place, a place to scream as loud as you possibly could in as many different ways as you possibly could. Be it clothes, hair, songs, music to everything. To scream your dislike for what the fuck was going on. Now we got so many Nintendos and Wii’s and all this shit. I-Pods and text messaging and I’m really pissed at the youth. Why aren’t you mad? Look what’s happening, get angry. That’s what pisses me off. I’m still exceptionally political.