IE: What was the NYHC scene like in 1984/85?

Mike: It was a really interesting time, it was really nice. The scene was relatively small and by the time I got into it there was CBGB’s and some other clubs like Rock Hotel, Irving Plaza but everything was kind of based around CB’s. Bands would play there and sell their demos and T-shirts on the pool table in the back of the club. Everyone knew each other and smaller bands turned into medium bands which turned into larger bands. Seemed like there was a good crowd of people. I was just looking at some pictures from back then of an Agnostic Front show and there were some skinheads in the audience but the percentage was pretty low. The majority of people there were just average hardcore kids. That’s just kind of the way it was. It’s kind of a broad question, I could talk for two hours on different aspects of it.

IE: I’ve been reading old interviews and they made it seem that there was a big skinhead thing going on in New York City but you’re making it seem like there weren’t really that many skinheads.

Mike: I don’t want to give you that impression but by early/mid 1985 the audience had grown beyond that. I think in 1981 there were a larger percentage of skinheads but as it was moving along it started drawing in your average person. The suburban kids were starting to come. It was a really interesting time.

IE: They talk about the area around CBGB’s, Tompkins Square Park, and the city in general as a pretty dangerous place. Did you feel that too?

Mike: It was, but I never felt scared because I’m pretty tall. I guess I was just out of it enough. You know when you’re 15 or 16 you think that nothing can ever go wrong. It was a pretty dangerous situation. A lot of people at the shows whether they were skinheads or not were often were people that were violent. People weren’t beaten up at every show but I certainly saw people get beaten up. It’s funny when you go to the Bowery now because it’s all super expensive condos and everything. It was a rough area and there was a lot of drug use. Most people involved in the scene weren’t boy scouts. The danger aspect kind of made it exciting though and made it a fringe thing. It is kind of amazing to see bands like Green Day on the Grammys. It really is scary how different it is now versus then.

IE: I got into hardcore in 1988/89 and at my first show in NYC these skinheads jumped this kid right in front of me and I thought that was crazy. As far as I could see the kid didn’t do anything.

Mike: Part of it for me, and you’re going to get different input from people on this, is that no one for the most part really fucked with me because I had a fanzine. Part of my fanzine “Bullshit Monthly” was very news oriented and I went around at every show to every band, to everyone to say “hey what’s up and what’s with your band?” These people would have a new demo or are playing a show Friday, or are looking for a new bassist, and these people are recording or whatever and I would print it in the zine. So the people really knew me and I really knew the people. The zine sold for between 10 and 35 cents. I think the real expensive one was 50 cents. I did a couple of those. So I’d be at a show with literally a couple hundred zines and people would buy them and read them between bands. So since I knew everyone and people really didn’t fuck with me. Even later when I came out in 1989 people didn’t fuck with me because everyone already knew me. I was probably the best person to come out as gay in the NYHC scene. To be the first one because if it was someone else they probably could have been killed. You can probably get better violence stories from other people because I was kind of naïve. I didn’t know anything about the drug use or how violent things were. You could talk to someone that was at the same shows as me and get a totally different story.

IE: Were you straight edge?

Mike:  I never called myself straight edge or considered myself straight edge. I’ve never done the abstinence thing and I always treated people with respect and I keep a clear head and all that stuff. I never wore an X but I liked a lot of those bands. Straight Ahead was one of my favorite bands. I couldn’t believe how awesome they were.

IE: Did you see racism in the NY scene?

Mike: It’s hard for me to say because I’m white and I never experienced or saw it. The majority of skinheads I knew in NY where either black or Puerto Rican and very big. You really didn’t want to fuck with them. Big Charlie was black and 300 pounds of muscle and if you would have said anything racist around him he would have probably put you through the sidewalk. On the gay stuff in punk in general, I’m a little more forgiving if a band from like 1981 like the Adolescents have a song where they talk about fags versus a band from 1988 or ’89. There was a different level of consciousness. In 1981 gays were just practically a cult or something. They were far from main stream. So for a punk band to say something like that I can kind of understand that. Then you move on to 1985 and if you’re still saying that it’s time to grow up.

The Beginnings of SFA

IE: Was SFA’s first show out in Long Island in 1985?

Mike: That wasn’t really SFA. I’m not sure how to describe it. I was 16 and real new to the scene thinking I was really punk rock. I put out adds to start a band and I found these 3 guys and we played a show with the couple of songs we had. It wasn’t really even music and we only played that one show. That was the Spastic Farm Animals. It was an amazing line up though- Sheer Terror, Shok, Token Entry, Major Conflict and us. We were just so awful. After that I started doing SFA with Ron who was later in GO!, and Billy who was in SFA forever. Ron, Billy and I all went to the same high school in Queens. This was around 1985 and the people into punk in Martin Van Buren High School you could count on one hand. One of them was Howie Abrams. Around 1985 you had metal people coming into the scene because they liked what was going on. Agnostic Front was really hot. If you were into metal you might as well be into hardcore too. Our first SFA show was with Damage, DI, and Doggy Style. We played with Verbal Assault. We also played a show with Sick of it All in PA, Philadelphia I think and we didn’t bring a drum set. The other bands wouldn’t loan us drums so we had to drive to this kids house to borrow his drums or we wouldn’t have been able to play. We never really played with the straight edge bands and we never played those Pyramid shows until I think I left and Brendan took it over. Brendan was able to get a lot of shows that I couldn’t.

IE: What made you want to have two singers in SFA?

Mike: Actually I didn’t. I was leaving NY in May to bike across the country and I didn’t know if I was going to come back to NY or not. So Brendan I think started singing at some of our practices and he did my farewell show and he took over the band. The flyer for that last show said “Last Show. After this no more Bullshit”. I was gone for 6 or 7 weeks and I ended up coming back and we had the two singers and we did that awful, awful 7”. Then I left again and by the time I came back the band had grown without me. They turned into something I wasn’t apart of and that was cool with me. So at that point it was really his band and I needed something else so I started GO!

IE: I didn’t realize that. I thought Brendan joined and you guys sang for a while before you left.

Mike: I think we did two months with two singers and even at that point it was starting to turn more towards him. Then he had the whole Hatecore thing. That was Brendan.

IE: So were you and Brendan friends before he sang with SFA?

Mike: Brendan and I were really good friends. He was awesome, he was my best friend. When he was in the military I would send him Yoohoo and he’d send back pictures of where he was. The first SFA 7” is a picture of him with a machine gun in Egypt I think. We used to hangout all the time. Brendan was actually the first person I came out to.

IE: So it sounds like you don’t like that first 7”

Mike: Oh God it’s awful. It’s pretty easy not to like it because it sucks.

IE: But when you guys were doing it did you like it?

Mike: It was a bizarre situation. I think Jan got us free studio time and free doesn’t mean good. We had to do it at their convenience.  The two demos are just so much better than the 7”. Just with two singers singing everything together doesn’t sound good at all. We should have taken turns singing.

IE: So after you left the second time did you ever sing with SFA again?

Mike: I think when I came back I was starting to come out more publicly and I was a little more interested in that. That’s just not what SFA was about. I think it really came down to SFA was supposed to play a show with the Bad Brains and I thought here was a good way to talk about gay stuff and the rest of the band wasn’t really interested in doing that. In retrospect it probably was for the best. That led to the parting of ways. And once I left the second time I feel Brendan was really able to bring it up a notch and SFA was really good,

IE: You have that song about HR on the first Go 7".

Mike: Oh yeah. I love that. I can’t play that and not smile. It’s a fantastic sing along. I got a certain amount of shit from that as well. One of Bad Brains roadies came to ABC No Rio and threatened me. I never got beat up though.

GO! 

IE: So how did Go come together?

Mike: Actually Ron, the original SFA drummer lived down the street from me in Queens and I played bass a little bit so we started practicing. Someone mentioned that there was this guitarist Aaron and he joined. We played one show with me on bass and did the first demo. Then we got John. There was a lot of sharing musicians between Go! and SFA.  Aaron played with SFA after he joined Go and John the original bassist in Go! joined SFA on guitar and Billy from SFA played a few shows with Go!

IE: Did you go into Go! with a message you wanted to get across?

Mike: I had broken off from SFA because we had grown apart, and really I just wanted to write short, fast songs that had some lyrical content to them. I think that’s all I’ve ever wanted to do and am just really happy that I can still do it. But I’m really glad we brought up gay and lesbian issues and presented a gay-positive voice. That meant a whole lot to a whole generation of queer punks. I heard it then and I still hear it some now. And dealing with the status of women in “Rib of Adam” and wildlife conservation and racism- we were sarcastic enough that it wasn’t too tough to swallow, but I’m so glad we spoke out. I hope we’re not only thought of as an “issues” band, though. Lots of our songs were just fun. But if we’re remembered at all by anyone for any reason I can’t really complain, can I?

IE: Were you ever heckled from the crowd for being gay?

Mike: Kind of on the US tour we went on with Bad Trip. We were both like really small bands in the great scheme of things. Every so often I’d get shit. I think I got more shit for talking too much between songs than for being gay though.

IE: Did you ever get shit from other bands?

Mike: No, not really.

IE: How many tours did you do the first time around?

Mike: The 1990 US tour with Bad Trip and the 1991 European tour with Decline. That was enough really. Being on the road really took its toll on us.

IE: You guys went to Europe before it was a common thing to do. Was there already a support system set up to help you book the tour or was it just a DIY set up?

Mike: Touring Europe was completely amazing, and 100 times easier than touring the US. People are really into seeing US bands, and really organized in putting together shows and tours. So many fantastic shows and memories from that- it would fill a whole interview on its own. It definitely wasn’t very common at the time, but I’m so glad we did it. We were a pretty small band to have done so. I’ll never forget those days.

IE: For Go! only originally being around from 1989-91 you guys put out a lot of music. Was it just an amazingly creative time for you guys?

Mike: Oh yeah. I would come up with lyrics and Aaron (guitar) would come with a guitar part, or I’d have a guitar part and he’d have another one and we’d put them together. Our bassist and drummers were always really great with everything, so it really was amazing. In that time period we recorded 4 EP’s, plus a split EP, put out a live flexi, an LP compiling 3 EP’s, and a bootleg our friend Yannick did. Believe it or not we sold almost 17,000 records in 1990-91, plus a couple of hundred demos.

IE: Why did Go end in 1991?

Mike: I was going to a university in Texas and Aaron was off to college and we just…parted. We had already had our “final” show in August 1990, so splitting up again didn’t seem like a real stretch.

IE: What made Go! get back together in 2006? Is Go! finished?

Mike: We just really missed making music- and ‘ya know- “Why not?” We’ve broken up like a dozen times or so, so you never know but we all have different things going on right now, and fact is, I live in San Jose, CA. Aaron is in Seattle, Jim is in Rhode Island, and Steve is in New York. That’s pretty tough to maintain. I’m happy I have something local now. Flying across country to practice kinda gets old.

IE: You are on a 7” called (Ego), if I remember correctly. Can you tell us what that was?

Mike: (Ego) was a project I did after Go! For that one I played guitar and sang, Jim from Go! was in it originally. We played some shows in NY in 1992 and recorded an EP (“Form As Function” which sounds a lot like GO!). After I spent 6 months living in a squat in Hamburg Germany. We played a couple of shows in 1993 and recorded our second EP (“Es Kommt Von Selbst”) which kinda sounds like Go! meets Fugazi. In 1994 we did a short US tour with Sticks and Stones- maybe 10 days. I was living in a commune in rural Missouri at that point. I have some of the last EP left over if anyone wants.

IE: How did you find ABC No Rio?

Mike: There was a show there with SFA and Bugout Society in the middle of 1989 I think and it was kind of cool. I think Gavin from Absolution/Burn was hanging around and I think he knew the guy and the space was available so I thought “fuck it I’ll book it”.

IE: So they kind of wanted to do shows. It wasn’t like you went to them and suggested it to them?

Mike: No, the space was available and CBGB’s had stopped doing matinees. So I said why don’t we do matinees here.

IE: Did you have to convince them to have more shows there or were they into it?

Mike: They were wacky art people. Once they had that show with SFA and Bugout Society they were kind of into it. Gavin hung out, I wouldn’t call him security per say. He was there and that was cool because he’s a pretty big guy and people didn’t fuck with him. Freddy Alva, Enschnieder, and John Jersey helped out. I booked all the shows there for the first six months and I ran it. In the beginning I was doing everything and then slowly people started helping out and it was awesome. Then after six months Go! went on tour and then I pretty much left NY. I would come back every now and then but for the most part I was out of the scene and that’s when Neil (Tribal War) and Freddy Alva took over and they started booking more of the punk and squat bands. When we started doing the shows there was no stage. Everything was just on the ground and the floor wasn’t even and if you jumped up and down there would be dust flying all over. You had to be careful of nails sticking out. It was just this weird abandoned space. The first six months were just magic. I instituted the whole no homophobia, no racism, no sexism rules. The no sexism was the hardest to enforce. I found out later that some bands hid their anti-gay feelings because they wanted to play ABC No Rio which I find hysterical. But for the most part bands didn’t want to play there. I knew a lot of bands because of Bullshit Monthly so I would call all these bands and they just didn’t want to play there. So Citizens Arrest played there a lot. Sometimes almost every week because whenever a band didn’t show up they were there anyway so they’d play. Rorschach played all the time also. Go!, Born Against, SFA, Seizure, Inflatable Children, Product 19 played there a lot. We also had a lot of tiny bands play and we had touring bands come. Some were good and some were just whatever. If you sent me a tape or a record I would probably book you at ABC. There wasn’t a waiting list to play there. It’s great knowing that that I was involved in something that meant so much to these people. It feels great to have started something that really meant a lot to people.

IE: There seemed to be a division between the bands that would play CBGB’s and the ones that would play ABC No Rio.

Mike: Totally. I have a list here of the first 37 shows at ABC. Who played and how many people showed up. Supertouch, Poison Idea, Bad Trip, Awake, MDC, Neurosis, Swiz, Krakdown, Burn, and Moondog (who became Quicksand), and that was while I was there. After I left they started booking bands I was really into like Oi Polloi, Nausea, and Jesus Crust. We had 175 people for the Burn show. I don’t know how we fit them in there. That show was upstairs. They were my favorite band so I tried to get them at ABC a few times but that was the only time. Go! played our first show with Burn. They were fucking awesome.

IE: When you went back in 2006 were there people still there that you knew from your time there?

Mike: There were people there that I knew. You know the cool thing about going and playing that show was that a lot of people who hadn’t been there in 10 or 15 years showed up and it was really awesome. It was awesome for me being there but it was awesome also knowing that people were there because of us and it was the excuse that some people needed to get back in touch after all these years.

IE: Did you and Porcell (Youth Of Today) have a feud?

Mike: We didn’t really know each other.

IE: Did you maybe give Youth of Today a bad review?

Mike: I gave everybody bad reviews and they were pissed off.

IE: I believe in Schism…the zine he did he makes fun of SFA.

Mike: Oh, I gave Project X like the worst review. It’s the worst fucking record. I still don’t really like it. SFA actually played a show with Project X and Life’s Blood. It’s kind of unreal it ever really happened. Everyone had their own kind of crowd and when Project X played all the Posi-kids came in and when the other bands played hung out outside and vice versa.

BULLSHIT MONTHLY

IE: What came first? The zine name Bullshit Monthy or the name Mike Bullshit? Why the name Mike Bullshit?

Mike: I was actually Mike Riot for a while doing the fanzine, so the name Bullshit Monthly definitely came first. I don’t think I had any real purpose- it just sounded good. Some years later I morphed into Mike Bullshit, where I happily am today. It was common back then to get the name of your zine or band- Kevin Seconds, Cary Attitude, Gary Tse-Tse Fly, Wendy Guillotine, Jason Krakdown, Ray of Today, Craig Ahead, etc.

IE: Your zines were hand written and only a few pages long. Was it just easier to handwrite them?

Mike: The fanzine started off shorter and grew over time. Over the months I gained more experience, met more people, got better at finding out what the news was, got more records and tapes to review, and more input from others. And when you can sell a bunch it can spur you on. I’ve always enjoyed handwritten stuff. The zines that were 100% type-written seemed a little more mechanical. I still do handwritten stuff when I can. Even at work. (I work as a graphic designer). I would get a box of like 600 zines and I would have to collate and staple them in my parents living room and then sell a couple of hundred of them at shows. I’d sell a couple of hundred at the Rock Hotel and a couple of hundred at CB’s. People would read it between bands. It would cost 35 cents. Doing the zine was cool because I never had to pay for anything because I’d be on the list and I wouldn’t have to wait in line. So those little fringe benefits were kind of cool.

IE: Do you think the art of the zine is dead today?

Mike: Well, it’s definitely tougher to do and sell. You don’t see too many, and it’s a shame. No Mistake has a song “Copied, Folded, & Stapled” about fanzines. There aren’t many fanzine songs out there.

IE: Do you read any zines today? Which ones? Any favorites from today and from the 80’s?

Mike: There were so many fanzines “back in the day”- I had a lot of peers. Some mentioned earlier, but also Worthless, XXX, Jersey Beat, Violin Outbreak, Unite, Smashing Through, Right Trash, Schism, Boiling Point, Last Daze (Gina RIP) and of course Maximum Rock and Roll and Flipside. They were larger and had better distribution, so were the first fanzines I read. There are fewer now, but I buy them whenever I see them. I still read MRR quite a bit.

IE: You play guitar in this band. Was it a conscious decision not to be the singer? How different is it for you playing guitar in the band than it is being the singer?

Mike: I’ll tell you it was really tough. Going from being “the singer” to “the guitarist” was a real leap- and I was pretty self-conscious: can I play well enough? Can I pull this off? But the truth is- I really love it, I’ve gotten better at it than I was, and I still sing some vocals (mostly backing vocals, but parts of a song or two), and write just about all the music and lyrics. It’s both challenging and fun to write lyrics that someone else is going to sing. I have to get my point across, but write for his voice. Also, he edits the lyrics to suit himself, which I haven’t had before. It makes the songs better.

IE: Where are some of the places you have played so far? Have you just played locally? Any plans for touring?

Mike: We’ve played in San Jose, Oakland, San Francisco, Santa Cruz, Berkeley, and at some point we’ll start to go a little further out, but truthfully, just playing out at all is kinda tough since Greg has a wife and kid, and I have a husband and dogs, and we have jobs and all that. So yeah, we play locally, but keep in contact with people around the US and the world. I think even doing short weekend tours would be tough. But who knows. We’ll be around for a long time so yeah, who knows.

IE: You guys have a 7” out now called “Connect the Dots…Complete the Puzzle”. Is this your first release? Did you guys put out a demo? How can people get the 7”?

Mike: The “Connect the Dots…Complete the Puzzle” recording (13 songs) was in mid 2012. It was released on a CD and cassette, and now most are on the 7” (the others are on comps and splits). We were all really happy with it. Some favs are “We Stole Hawaii”, and “Unlucky You” (my usual song about wildlife conservation). “We Are Enemies” was the song about assholes that I never was able to write. The EP is out now. People can contact me at nm@designbymike.com or go to http://nomistake.bandcamp.com to order it. I have a bunch of other stuff up there too, including Go! Records, T-shirts, and the CD “Existence”. We also just recorded a 4-song release which is available online and will also be a split EP with Back Off! An amazing new hard-fucking-core band my friend from Hungary is in. They sound like 80’s NYHC… which is what we sound like, so it all works out.

IE: How has the response been for No Mistake so far?

Mike: When people hear us, they like us. Can’t really ask for more than that. And a lot of people around the world listen to the band, write us, order T-shirts and music. It’s really great.

IE: What are your future plans for No Mistake?

Mike: Just to keep going, making good music, meeting more and more people, playing shows, putting out records, making flyers. Just being able to make music is awesome, and a great way to be part of the scene. People can Like us on Facebook and follow along as this comes together. http://ww.facebook.com/nomistake

IE: Is there anything you’d like to add about No Mistake, Go!, ABC No Rio, or anything from this interview?

Mike: Thanks to everyone for everything over the years- thanks for coming along for the ride. Glad to have you here.